10/16/2025
But beforehand, we also opened a coffee shop next to our delicatessen, and it was the first or second espresso machine in Sydney. There were a lot of Italians living in the area, and the coffee shop was opened on Sunday. So we were working seven days a week. Shirley and I used to get up Sunday morning, take [my eldest] David to my mother, then go together to the shop.
So we built those few shops next to us. I think it was four shops, and it was very successful. We rented them and [finally] sold them. So that was our first real estate venture. On top of that, the landlord of ours in Blacktown had four or five acres behind the shops next to the post office.
We thought, well why can't we try to buy it and build some more shops? We’d already heard about shopping centres in the United States, so we bought some architectural magazines, and we learnt a little bit about how to. We bought that piece of land, hired an architect, and created a small shopping centre of 12 shops, a small department store and parking for 30 cars. It was an unbelievable success. Meanwhile, we sold the delicatessen and the coffee shop, which gave us the capital to carry on business. We opened that shopping centre on the 9th of August 1959.
HD: It's incredible that you chose Blacktown because of immigration there. And then when you were in a delicatessen, you expanded into real estate and you just saw an opportunity. So it wasn't like you went to Blacktown to build a shopping centre. The plans developed as you could see things as they were happening.
FL: Practically my whole business career was instinctive; I have an instinct and then I do the research about my instinct. And that's the way I made decisions.
I'm very curious and, as you know, I'm paranoid. But at the same time, I'm an optimist because you cannot be a real estate developer without being an optimist. The paranoia must follow you, and that's how I think I can attribute my success; to those feelings and then the people I choose to be with.
When we sold out of Westfield there were people who used to work for me, started as young people and 30 years later there were still there. Of course, I was very lucky to have three sons like David, Peter and Steven, who are smart, hard workers, and also I think there is an optimism in the four of us and also the paranoia. I can't quite describe it to you, but the mixture of those does wonders.
HD: Frank, you once said to me, "always play the ball and not the man". But how do you avoid playing the man when you're playing tough to get outcomes in business?
FL: I think what I used to do is decide by myself where I want to be in those negotiations. And I just didn't give in. I kept my point. Occasionally in business, you have to give in, to give the other guys some victory also. But I decided where I wanted to be at the end of the negotiation, and once I got there, there was nowhere to go.
The opponent must have realised this, because you need the buyer and the seller all the time. Somebody has to be definite. I was definite because I believed that's the way to go. I don't like these negotiations that drag on for a long time. I lose patience and I know where I want to be. So why play around? Just state your position and stick to it.
HD: Frank, I'm going to move on from Westfield a little bit, and I haven't asked you this question before, so I'm incredibly interested in the answer. You have had a great privilege of meeting so many people around the world in your life, who has impressed you the most and why?