05/12/2026
Ann Maree Goudzwaard and Julia Fillnow host expert contributor Chuck DeGroat today on the Safe to Hope podcast. Dr. DeGroat is a counseling and Christian spirituality professor, licensed therapist, and author of his most recent works, “When Narcissism Comes to Church,” and “Healing What’s Within.”
DeGroat begins by sharing his journey from arrogant seminary student to having to face his own personal work, recognizing abusive dynamics in a misogynistic church context, being fired, and then later confronting trauma and secondary trauma.
Dr. DeGroat enhances our HH library of definitions for spiritual abuse by defining it as the misuse of pastoral authority, Scripture, and spiritual practices to control, coerce, and exploit image bearers, targeting worth, belonging, and purpose.
The conversation explores narcissism (grandiose and covert), its trauma roots, how churches reward it, and identifying red flags. Together the hosts and Dr. DeGroat emphasize systemic complicity, the need for truth-telling, accountability, and deep repentance and repair, alongside healing trauma’s bodily effects and how that healing requires safety, naming patterns, and connection. Listen now on your favorite podcast platform!
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