Victims of Religious Indoctrination

Victims of Religious Indoctrination Working together to provide education about religious myths. A discussion & support group for those who have been the victims of religious indoctrination. Admin.

Are you a church goer or former church goer & feel that you have been the victim of religious indoctrination? Do you no longer believe in the claims of religious leaders & theologians? Maybe you have a leadership position yourself. Do you believe in science & reason instead of ancient myths & superstitions? Do you like to help those in need without any religious attachments? Here's a chance to sha

re your thoughts, stories & info as well as providing encouragement to other victims. If you've never believed in the claims of religious leaders then feel free to join in the discussion too. Let's work together to make tomorrow a better day without being held back by outdated (& fictional) religious dogma. Let's promote secular humanism.

This reminds me of a preacher a few years ago who was told there's no reliable evidence of the bible claims. He said we ...
05/19/2026

This reminds me of a preacher a few years ago who was told there's no reliable evidence of the bible claims. He said we just have to have faith. When told that doesn't make the bible stories true, he responded with some nonsense about a well known bible college he went to that provided lots of evidence that the bible stories were indeed true.
There's no arguing with them about their horsesh*t ideas. It's really bizarre the amount of mental gymnastics preachers engage in.

FAITH DOESN’T LEAD TO TRUTH: A STUDY IN EPISTEMIC SHORTCUTS AND HUMAN CERTAINTY

Faith is often presented as a virtue: a noble bridge between ignorance and understanding, a kind of internal compass pointing toward truth when evidence is absent. In practice, it behaves less like a compass and more like a locked loop—capable of producing certainty without requiring reality to cooperate.

From an atheistic and epistemological standpoint, the central issue is not whether faith is emotionally meaningful, but whether it is reliable for discovering what is actually true about the world. On that question, the track record is not flattering.

Truth, in the rigorous sense used in science and philosophy of knowledge, depends on correspondence with reality, supported by evidence, reproducibility, and correction mechanisms. Faith, by contrast, functions independently of those constraints. It allows contradictory conclusions to coexist without requiring resolution. Two people can hold mutually exclusive beliefs with equal conviction, both attributing their confidence to faith. If both are “right” by the same method, the method stops distinguishing truth from error.

By Religion: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

That is not a minor flaw. It is the collapse of a filter.

FAITH AS EPISTEMIC SHORTCUT

Cognitive science treats faith-like belief formation as part of a broader human tendency toward pattern completion and agency detection. Humans prefer coherent narratives over uncertainty, even when coherence is artificially imposed. This is not a moral failure; it is a cognitive feature. But it becomes epistemically dangerous when used as a substitute for verification.

Daniel Kahneman’s work on cognitive bias shows how quickly humans default to intuitive certainty over analytical doubt. Faith often occupies this intuitive layer, offering emotional closure before evidence is evaluated (Kahneman, 2011).

The problem is not belief itself. The problem is the immunity to correction.

Science, for all its imperfections, builds correction into its structure. Faith often treats correction as threat.

WHEN FAITH AND REALITY COLLIDE

Historical cases repeatedly show that faith-based certainty resists revision even in the presence of contradictory evidence. From cosmology to medicine to geology, human beings have held beliefs grounded in revelation or tradition that later collapsed under empirical investigation.

The tension is not subtle. If a method reliably produced truth, it would converge with reality over time. Instead, faith-based systems tend to fragment into divergent interpretations rather than converge into unified models of the world.

This raises a simple question:

If faith leads to truth, why does it not converge?

THE SURVIVAL VALUE OF BEING WRONG

One explanation is that faith is not designed to produce truth, but to produce stability. Psychologically, it reduces anxiety, simplifies uncertainty, and strengthens group cohesion. These are adaptive features in social evolution.

But adaptive does not mean accurate.

A comforting belief can function perfectly while being factually false. Human history is filled with such examples. The mind prefers coherence over ambiguity, even when coherence is artificially constructed.

So another question emerges:

Is comfort being mistaken for knowledge?

THE BURDEN OF CONTRADICTION

Religious traditions contain internal contradictions, interpretive conflicts, and historical revisions. Faith resolves these not by eliminating inconsistency, but by reinterpreting it. This flexibility is often treated as strength, but epistemically it behaves like insulation from falsification.

Karl Popper’s concept of falsifiability is relevant here: for a claim to be scientifically meaningful, it must be capable of being proven wrong (Popper, 1959). Faith-based claims often resist this requirement by shifting interpretive boundaries whenever contradiction appears.

A system that cannot, in principle, be wrong also cannot, in principle, be shown true in a reliable way.

So what exactly is being measured when people say “faith is true”?

HUMAN CERTAINTY WITHOUT OUTSIDE VALIDATION

Faith produces certainty internally, without external calibration. That makes it psychologically powerful and epistemically unstable. It is self-referential: belief justifies belief.

In contrast, truth-seeking systems require friction—measurement against independent reality. Without that friction, certainty becomes indistinguishable from conviction, and conviction is not evidence.

Which leads to another uncomfortable question:

If belief feels identical in both true and false cases, what distinguishes them?

CONCLUSION: FAITH AS NON-TRUTH TRACKING SYSTEM

From an atheistic perspective grounded in epistemology and cognitive science, faith is best understood not as a pathway to truth, but as a mechanism for meaning-making under uncertainty. It can motivate action, stabilize identity, and structure communities. None of these functions require accuracy.

The distinction matters.

A tool that does not reliably distinguish true from false is not a truth-tracking system. It is a belief-regulating system.

So the final question remains:

If truth is what corresponds to reality, and faith does not require reality to respond, why assume they are connected at all?

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REFERENCES (APA)

Kahneman, D. (2011). Thinking, fast and slow. Farrar, Straus and Giroux.

Popper, K. R. (1959). The logic of scientific discovery. Hutchinson.

Shermer, M. (2011). The believing brain: From ghosts and gods to politics and conspiracies—how we construct beliefs and reinforce them as truths. Times Books.

Dennett, D. C. (2006). Breaking the spell: Religion as a natural phenomenon. Viking.

It's amazing the amount of horsesh*t preachers come up with. And the amount of mental gymnastic games they play.
04/05/2026

It's amazing the amount of horsesh*t preachers come up with. And the amount of mental gymnastic games they play.

For those who say that atheists abandoned Christianity and Islam just to find a new shepherd in people like Richard Dawkins.
-AMV

People can believe whatever they want to, but it's horrible the huge amounts of money preachers con people into giving t...
04/05/2026

People can believe whatever they want to, but it's horrible the huge amounts of money preachers con people into giving them, especially those who are struggling financially.

The expectation of an imminent return is not a fringe doctrine—it is embedded in the earliest strata of Christian texts. In the New Testament, passages such as Matthew 24:34 (“this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened”) and 1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 suggest urgency, not millennia-long delay. Scholars widely agree that early Christians anticipated a near-term culmination of history (Ehrman, 2014; Allison, 1998). If so, the delay is not a minor interpretive wrinkle; it is a central tension.

By Religion: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

So what happens when a prophecy with a built-in timeline does not materialize?

History offers a consistent answer: reinterpretation, rationalization, and postponement. The pattern is well documented in the sociology of belief. When a prophecy fails, believers rarely abandon the system outright; instead, they revise the meaning of the prophecy to preserve the underlying faith (Festinger et al., 1956). The disconfirmation becomes, paradoxically, a test of faith rather than a falsification of it.

This is not unique to Christianity. Consider the Millerite movement, whose followers predicted Christ’s return in 1844. When the date passed—an event now called the Great Disappointment—many adherents did not discard the belief. Instead, they reinterpreted the prophecy as a spiritual, invisible event. The expectation survived; only its verification criteria changed.

The same dynamic appears in modern apocalyptic predictions, from Harold Camping’s failed 2011 prophecy to countless unnamed predictions that quietly expire without fanfare. Each failure is absorbed into the system rather than allowed to dismantle it. The belief adapts; the evidence does not.

From an atheist perspective, this pattern raises an uncomfortable question: if a claim can survive any outcome—whether fulfillment or failure—what would count as evidence against it? A belief that cannot, even in principle, be falsified ceases to function as a testable claim about reality. It becomes something else: a psychological or cultural commitment.

The persistence of such beliefs is not surprising when viewed through the lens of cognitive science. Humans are pattern-seeking, meaning-making creatures. We are also prone to confirmation bias, motivated reasoning, and the need for existential reassurance (Kahneman, 2011; Boyer, 2001). The promise of an imminent, transformative event—especially one that resolves injustice and grants ultimate meaning—is emotionally powerful. It is, in a sense, too good to abandon easily.

But power does not equal truth.

Consider the epistemic standard applied elsewhere. If a financial analyst repeatedly predicted a market crash “any day now” for 2,000 years, would we regard them as insightful—or as systematically wrong? If a scientist proposed a theory that failed every empirical test but insisted the results were “invisible” or “spiritual,” would that theory remain credible?

Why, then, should religious claims be exempt from the same scrutiny?

The image of skeletons waiting is more than a joke; it is an indictment of unexamined certainty. It invites reflection on the cost of belief—not only in terms of personal expectation but in how it shapes moral and intellectual priorities. If one believes the world is about to end, long-term concerns—climate change, social reform, scientific investment—can seem secondary. Why plan for centuries when you expect days?

Yet centuries pass.

This does not mean that all religious belief is reducible to failed prophecy, nor that individuals derive no value from faith. It means that specific claims—especially those about observable events in time—should be evaluated with the same rigor as any other claim. The repeated failure of imminent-return predictions is not neutral data; it is evidence.

So the questions remain, and they are not rhetorical decorations but genuine invitations to think:

If the earliest followers of Jesus expected his return within their lifetime, and that expectation failed, what does that imply about the reliability of the claim?

How many failed predictions are required before a pattern is acknowledged?

What would it look like to treat religious claims with the same evidentiary standards applied in science or history?

If a belief system adapts to absorb every contradiction, is it resilient—or unfalsifiable?

And most importantly: what beliefs do you hold that would not survive repeated disconfirmation?

The skeletons, in their silent patience, offer one final insight. Time is the ultimate auditor. It does not argue, reinterpret, or defend. It simply accumulates outcomes. And after enough time, patterns become difficult to ignore.

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References (APA)

Allison, D. C. (1998). Jesus of Nazareth: Millenarian prophet. Fortress Press.

Boyer, P. (2001). Religion explained: The evolutionary origins of religious thought. Basic Books.

Ehrman, B. D. (2014). How Jesus became God: The exaltation of a Jewish preacher from Galilee. HarperOne.

Festinger, L., Riecken, H., & Schachter, S. (1956). When prophecy fails. University of Minnesota Press.

Kahneman, D. (2011). Thinking, fast and slow. Farrar, Straus and Giroux.

This is a very important day to recognise!
03/31/2026

This is a very important day to recognise!

Celebrating my Trans friends and followers today! May your lives be filled with love and happiness.

Many of us experienced this as a result of our s*x repressive religious upbringing. For gay people it was even worse, an...
03/23/2026

Many of us experienced this as a result of our s*x repressive religious upbringing. For gay people it was even worse, and still is in some places.

Consensual pleasure is a human birthright. Patriarchal religions try to twist and deny it. If you’re recovering from religion and reclaiming pleasure, I support you! 🎉

03/17/2026

Well said Janice!

A preacher once told me that all I needed was to have faith in his god. Somehow that's supposed to make their horsesh*t ...
03/16/2026

A preacher once told me that all I needed was to have faith in his god. Somehow that's supposed to make their horsesh*t true. Bizarre!

As soon as you implement logic into theism, the whole thing crumbles under the weight of its own lack of logic.
-AMV

As stated here, the bible "is not divine revelation but a patchwork of folklore, political propaganda, and moral codes f...
03/12/2026

As stated here, the bible "is not divine revelation but a patchwork of folklore, political propaganda, and moral codes from antiquity". Well said!

The Bible, when stripped of reverence and examined with the same scrutiny we apply to any historical text, collapses under the weight of its own contradictions, myth-making, and lack of empirical evidence. What remains is not divine revelation but a patchwork of folklore, political propaganda, and moral codes from antiquity.

By Religion: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
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The Claim vs. The Evidence
- The Claim: The Bible is the inerrant word of God, a historical record, and a moral compass.
- The Evidence: Archaeology, textual criticism, and historical analysis reveal inconsistencies, mythological borrowings, and political editing.

Consider this: If the Bible is evidence of God, then why does it require faith to believe it? Evidence should compel belief without faith. Would you accept a courtroom testimony that begins, “You must have faith this happened”?

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Historical and Textual Problems
- Contradictions: The Gospels disagree on fundamental details—who visited the tomb, what they saw, and when events occurred.
- Borrowed Myths: The flood narrative mirrors Mesopotamian epics like Gilgamesh. Virgin births and dying-rising gods appear in Egyptian and Greco-Roman traditions.
- Late Authorship: The New Testament was written decades after Jesus’ supposed life, by anonymous authors, in a context of growing sectarian conflict.

If divine truth was so urgent, why wait decades for anonymous scribes to record it?

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Archaeological Silence
- Exodus: No archaeological evidence supports the mass migration of Israelites from Egypt.
- Conquest of Canaan: Excavations show continuity of settlement, not violent conquest.
- Jesus’ Miracles: No contemporary historian mentions them, despite Roman obsession with recording unusual events.

Why does the earth itself refuse to corroborate the Bible’s grandest claims?

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Moral Bankruptcy
- Violence: Commands for genocide (Deuteronomy 20:16–17), slavery (Ephesians 6:5), and misogyny (1 Timothy 2:12).
- Selective Morality: Christians cherry-pick verses for modern ethics while ignoring barbaric laws.

If morality is timeless, why do believers discard half the book?

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Satirical Reflection
Imagine a modern courtroom where the Bible is presented as evidence. The judge asks: “Where are the witnesses? Where is the physical proof?” The defense replies: “We have faith.” Case dismissed.

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Questions for the Reader
1. If the Bible is divine truth, why does it resemble human myth-making so closely?
2. Why do believers demand faith where evidence should suffice?
3. If morality is eternal, why do Christians ignore the Bible’s most brutal commands?
4. Should a book that sanctions slavery and genocide be our moral compass?

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Conclusion
The Bible is not evidence—it is the claim. To accept it uncritically is to confuse assertion with proof. Atheism does not reject meaning; it rejects bad evidence. The real question is not whether the Bible is true, but why so many still insist it must be, despite the silence of history, archaeology, and reason.

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References (APA Style)

- Taylor, M. C. (n.d.). Introduction to Biblical Criticism. Atheist Scholar.

- Groothuis, D. (n.d.). The New Atheism’s Attack on the Bible. Academia.edu.

- Finkelstein, I., & Silberman, N. A. (2001). The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology’s New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts. New York: Free Press.

- Dawkins, R. (2006). The God Delusion. London: Bantam Press.

- Hitchens, C. (2007). God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything. New York: Twelve.

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Would you accept a claim in any other field—science, law, history—without evidence? If not, why give religion a free pass?

03/09/2026

Excellent words from Janice Selbie on International Women's Day!

An excellent analysis of organized religion that many of us can relate to in our own upbringing and surroundings.
02/04/2026

An excellent analysis of organized religion that many of us can relate to in our own upbringing and surroundings.

One of the stranger accomplishments of organized religion is not that it convinces people to believe implausible things, but that it trains otherwise functional adults to defend those beliefs using the same psychological tactics seen in narcissistic abuse: denial, deflection, victimhood, and reversal of blame. This is not an insult. It is an observable pattern.

First comes the lie.
Then the lie about the lie.
Then the insistence that questioning the lie is immoral.
And finally, when evidence refuses to cooperate, the believer assumes the role of the persecuted victim and declares the skeptic “arrogant,” “angry,” or “crazy.”

Sound familiar?

By Religion: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

Faith as a Training Program in Doublethink

George Orwell coined the term doublethink to describe the ability to hold two contradictory beliefs simultaneously and accept both as true (Orwell, 1984). Religion perfects this skill. Believers are taught that:

God is all-loving and will torture most humans forever.

God is all-knowing and constantly surprised by human behavior.

God is all-powerful and needs money, votes, laws, and armies.

Sacred texts are infallible except when they are metaphorical, mistranslated, or “taken out of context.”

When contradictions are pointed out, the response is rarely engagement. Instead, the believer retreats to a familiar script: You just don’t understand, You’re reading it wrong, You’re attacking my faith, Why are atheists so angry?

Why is calm skepticism treated as hostility? Why does asking for evidence provoke moral outrage?

Gaslighting as a Theological Virtue

Gaslighting is a manipulation tactic in which someone is made to doubt their own perception of reality. Religion employs it openly.

When prayers fail, the problem is not that prayer doesn’t work—it’s that you didn’t believe hard enough.
When prophecies fail, the problem is not the prophecy—it’s your interpretation.
When miracles stop occurring under controlled conditions, the problem is not the claim—it’s science being “biased.”

In psychology, this would be recognized as an abusive pattern. In religion, it is praised as faith.

Is it reasonable to call a method “truth-seeking” when it systematically immunizes itself against correction?

Victimhood: The Last Refuge of the Disproven

Despite centuries of dominance, political power, and cultural privilege, many religious groups insist they are under attack merely because they are contradicted. Criticism becomes “persecution.” Disagreement becomes “hatred.” Loss of unquestioned authority becomes “oppression.”

Yet in open societies, atheists remain one of the least trusted minorities, and in many countries, openly abandoning religion still carries legal or social penalties (Pew Research Center, 2019).

Who is actually at risk—the group making supernatural claims, or the one asking for evidence?

The Infantilization of Moral Reasoning

Religion often claims ownership of morality while outsourcing moral responsibility to divine command. Acts are good not because they reduce harm or increase well-being, but because a god allegedly ordered them. This is not moral maturity; it is moral outsourcing.

Philosophers from Epicurus to Kant to modern ethicists have noted the problem: if something is good because God commands it, morality is arbitrary. If God commands it because it is good, then morality exists independently of God (Plato, Euthyphro).

Why, then, insist that morality collapses without belief—when secular societies consistently outperform religious ones on measures of health, safety, education, and human rights (Zuckerman, 2008)?

Why Satire Is Necessary

Satire is not cruelty; it is a defense mechanism against ideas that demand reverence without evidence. When beliefs influence laws, education, medicine, and war, they forfeit the right to be treated gently.

As Bertrand Russell observed, “Fear is the basis of the whole thing—fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death” (Why I Am Not a Christian, 1927). Religion survives not by answering questions, but by teaching people which questions are forbidden.

Ask yourself:

Why does truth fear investigation?

Why does doubt offend an all-powerful god?

Why is faith praised most when evidence is weakest?

Conclusion: Growing Up Is Not a Sin

Atheism is not the claim that believers are stupid. It is the refusal to pretend that ancient stories, insulated from scrutiny, deserve authority over modern lives. It is the insistence that truth should survive questions, not punish those who ask them.

Religion trains people to lie—first to others, then to themselves—while calling it virtue. Atheism simply declines the training.

And that, more than anything else, is what terrifies faith.

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Sources & References

Orwell, G. (1949). 1984. Secker & Warburg.

Russell, B. (1927). Why I Am Not a Christian. National Secular Society.

Plato. Euthyphro.

Dawkins, R. (2006). The God Delusion. Bantam Press.

Dennett, D. (2006). Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon. Viking.

Pew Research Center. (2019). A Global Overview of Religious Restrictions.

Zuckerman, P. (2008). Society Without God. NYU Press.

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